(no subject)

[holli]

I left a comment on witchqueen's *excellent* post about the current SGA brouhaha and issues of race-- especially issues of *talking* about race-- in fandom, and one of the things I said was:

"And, okay, there's a whole post I should be making about how while I am technically a member of a minority, I always feel wildly unconfortable with claiming that status in any discussion of race, because anti-Semitism in my part of the country is virtually nonexistent. So I feel like I haven't quite earned the right to participate in the conversation as anything but another privileged white girl. And hangups like that are probably part of the reason why everyone gets so damn uncomfortable around these conversations. Augh."

This is that post, as well as I'm able to make it. Which isn't very: it's astonishingly difficult to resist the impulse to just say auuuuuuuugh, this is too hard, I don't wanna talk about it. But I should, so I will.

So here's the thing: growing up Jewish in a place where a lot of other people were Jewish, and anti-Semitism is effectively gone, and everyone I interacted with knew plenty of other Jewish people-- well, sometimes I kind of forget that I'm a member of a minority. I shouldn't, because this is a pretty recent development, and my parents remember swimming pools they weren't allowed in and realtors who wouldn't rent to *their* parents. But I do forget. Because I'm privileged, and I have the luxury of doing so.

This is why privilege sucks, you know? Because I know I have it, because I'm a white girl from an affluent family, who went to excellent schools, for whom racism is an abstract thing. But I don't have a choice about having it: it is, as Anya would say, a gift with purchase, never mind that I didn't get a choice about what I bought.

And, hey, I've already got that horrible cringing stop-talking-about-it feeling, because who the hell am I to whine about the privilege I have? Having it is an awful lot better that *not* having it, that's for sure. No one gets to opt out of privilege; no one even gets to decide how much they have. The only thing we can do, most of the time, is be aware of that fact, to have our eyes open, to think about the ways it makes our lives-- and the lives of those around us, and the lives of the characters we write-- easier or harder.

Which, I guess, is where I lose sympathy for the people who just don't want to talk about it, who want to deflect the conversation or change the subject. No one says you have to think about this stuff 24/7. But when someone asks you to open your eyes and pay attention and *think* about how it affects you, just this once, just in this situation, it's rude as hell not to.

Comments

[thete1.livejournal.com]

The only thing we can do, most of the time, is be aware of that fact, to have our eyes open, to think about the ways it makes our lives-- and the lives of those around us, and the lives of the characters we write-- easier or harder.

Yes. *precisely* Just -- yeah. This and Derry's comment on my post -- that's what I was flailing around, and still am. Thank you!

[holli.livejournal.com]

Thank *you!* If there weren't so many people making cool and thought-provoking posts on the subject, I would never have gotten up the nerve to say anything.

[machineplay.livejournal.com]

I agree completely. Whenever someone points something out to us, we at least have an obligation to question ourselves honestly. If we, as white writers, have to suffer a little discomfort once in a while, that's just too damn bad. Do I have to think about it 24/7? I think being aware of all my privileges, in all their forms, is good. But when I sit down and write, I think it's my obligation as a writer to be aware of where I'm writing from and what's colouring my vision.

I write original fic for the purpose of publication and I've just been reconsidering race in my upcoming novels after this set is done this year. It needs to be thought about. I definitely think I could be handling it better from here. It's something that's maturing along with other things that don't come 'naturally' to me in writing. I can't fix what's gone to press, but I can become increasingly more aware and even-handed.

Privilege sucks, yes. But what really sucks is a lack of awareness. That bothers me most, because largely that requires someone from outside to shine a light on it in any kind of timely manner. As uncomfortable as it may be for someone to point out racist, or even possibly racist, components in your work, the first thing off your fingers should be "Thank you" and the second should be "I'm sorry". Because I am grateful for awareness, and I hope I retain the grace to respond appropriately, and I am sorry for any offense I cause.

I think becoming paralytic is a possibility, but I also sometimes think that it's the flipside of pride. The inability to be wrong and to risk offending when one is doing one's best is just a kind of pridefulness. Anyone who says "well, now I just can't write" needs a swift kick in the pants. And another priviledge check. Because damned if there aren't people with way more serious issues having to do with their skin colour. :p

[holli.livejournal.com]

Privilege sucks, yes. But what really sucks is a lack of awareness. That bothers me most, because largely that requires someone from outside to shine a light on it in any kind of timely manner.

This, exactly, and what's frustrating is that sometimes, when you try to do that? The other person still refuses to look.

As angry as these conversations can get in fandom, I do not think I will ever in my life be as frustrated as I got in one argument I had in high school. This kid sat there in my sociology class and said, with a straight face, that he didn't think he had any advantages a poor or minority kid wouldn't have; I said, hold on. You are a white, Christian guy and you live in *the wealthiest ZIP code in America.* We attend *the best high school in the state.* *Ninety-six percent of our classmates go to college.* And you don't think that gives you a leg up?

And he didn't.

And what can you do, in the face of that?

[machineplay.livejournal.com]

I've been there with my brother. He lives with my parents in one of the nicest places in the province, and he looked me in the eye and told me he didn't think he had any privilege. In fact, he finds himself OPPRESSED by feminists and DISCRIMINATED AGAINST because he has bipolar disorder. So while he understands black people's problems, it's because he's in the same boat.

I shit you not. If we hadn't been preparing for Thanksgiving dinner, I would have beat him with the damn turkey pan. He's really not very welcome in my house anymore after that and his little freak out about how he won't call a transgender woman "her/she/woman" because the whole concept of woman is so central to his existence that he refuses to "sully" it by applying it to someone who was born male. I'll tolerate him for the family's sake, but, frankly, he freaks me the hell out, especially since I'm gender-queer.

I think all you can do is walk away. My uncle was a devout fundamentalist Christian who never proselytized without invitation. He said that if his life wasn't enough of an example to bring people to Christ, he wasn't being a good enough Christian. Sometimes, that's where we end up with people. We just have to walk the walk and talk the talk and if they can't catch on, we have to move on and just try and mitigate the damage.

[holli.livejournal.com]

Your uncle sounds *awesome*. Sadly, there are not nearly enough people like him in the world, and I end up all-to-frequently going "PEOPLE. It's called A CLUE. You should consider GETTING ONE."

[machineplay.livejournal.com]

I think that's why people like us need to go ahead and poke at the issues when they come up, even if we don't feel 'qualified', and not wait some FOCs to pull on their 'teachin' panties' and do it... AGAIN. I can't speak for them but I love to hear some male-identified person speaking up on feminist issues before I have to get my knickers on and likewise for straight friends of mine speaking up when they feel there's queer-discrimination going on. Sometimes, it doesn't feel as tiring to step up again when someone's broken the path first.

Walking the walk and talking the talk means taking our chances and maybe getting jumped on because, "ZOMG, I ARE NOT RACIST, I ARE CANONIST!" We're already questioning ourselves and our own work and trying to write it well; maybe it's time we started questioning each other. Granted, we're n00bs at it, but we can be taught, and we can learn as we go.

[norah.livejournal.com]

I think about this a lot - I worry about the male privilege my son will have (because male privilege affects MY life negatively) while forgetting that I have white privilege he will never have, and while doing nothing to mitigate the sense of economic privilege he will have - he'll probably have straight privilege too, statistically speaking, that I don't have, but I have bi privilege that other people don't have, and ... it's not as easy as saying "Me privileged! You not! Everyone lives within a matrix of privileges and privations. If we're lucky we have more of the former than the latter. I think too many people in this conversation have decided that they somehow cancel one another out - you know, because I'm female I can't be racist, or something like that.

Um, and I have TOTALLY GONE OFF ON MY OWN TANGENT. But I was thinking about it this morning, and your idea that we can't choose our privilege sparked my, um, totally unrelated comment. *cringe*

[holli.livejournal.com]

It's a good tangent! And it something that I didn't think to go into, so thank you for doing so!

Being oppressed for one thing doesn't mean you're incapable of oppressing someone else for something else; it doesn't even stop you from oppressing *other people like you*. How many Ann Coulters do there need to be in the world, to teach us that?

[holli.livejournal.com]

(and, just in case, when I say "you" I of course do not mean you personally! Just, you know, people in general.)

[http://users.livejournal.com/_swallow/]

(<3)

here via metafandom

[telesilla.livejournal.com]

For all that there has been some really annoying stuff said in this debate, there have also been good, thoughtful meta posts from a lot of intelligent people. Like this post for example. :)

And yes, it is hard to discuss racism from a position of white privilege, even if you've faced other forms of prejudice in your life, because it's so easy to feel guilty and get embarrassed. I just keep telling myself that while I'm not responsible for the privilege that I have, I am responsible for what I do with it and how I let it affect me.

[eleventh-guard.livejournal.com]

This is an isolated example (at least, I like to think it's isolated) but one thing that really opened my eyes to lingering racism is how my ex-boyfriend's mother reacted to his new girlfriend. This woman (his mother) really hated me, because I was two years older than her son AND I wasn't a Christian. We remained friends after the break-up, and he started dating a black girl. His mother then pushed him to get back with me because even though I was the wrong religion and, in her eyes, too old for him, "at least she's white." Blink blink, WTF.

I think this does highlight geographic issues, though; those raised in rural environments will have different experiences and attitudes than those in urban ones, and the suburbia is different from both; also, people bring in their attitudes from where they started and may or may not change to adapt to the new one. Of course, all these groups are heterogeneous, but some trends are still visible.

[abyssinia4077.livejournal.com]

*here from metafandom*

I was just reading your post and thinking "yes, exactly, yes" because I keep trying to write my own post and ending up in the "this is tooo hard" spot because while I'm always aware of the potential of anti-semitism, I've never had it really directed at me (I've been places where there were lots of other Jews, places were there were few, and places where I was the first Jew people ever met) and so I feel like I both can understand what it means to be a minority, and simultaneously can't understand at all. Because, unless I choose to share it, I can hide the minority status. Walking down the street I look like any other middle class white girl.

And...I'm not sure what my point is, exactly, except that it's really good to see someone else dealing with some of the same thoughts.

oops, logged in at my friend's computer

[monanotlisa.livejournal.com]

Here from Metafandom with a big YES, EXACTLY.